Flash has always had an interestingly evolving job. It wasn’t that long ago when if your web site needed a cool drop down menu you’d use Flash, until HTML and web browser improvements made that unnecessary. And it wasn’t that long ago that developers who wanted pop-up calendars or controls in our web forms used Flash, until DHTML made that just as unnecessary. Then Flash powered the in-browser video revolution, and Flash remains the dominant web browser video player, but now there are alternatives there as well. Even transitions and visual effects, once exclusively the realm of Flash, now have alternatives.
You see, Flash’s job has always been to pick up where the browser left off, with the understanding that the line between them was a grey and moving one. As HTML and web browsers have evolved and improved, Flash gets to back-off from specific use cases, handing them off to the web browser itself, and thereby freeing itself up to tackle the next challenge.
Or another way to look at it is this, Flash exists because browsers didn’t do enough, and as they do more Flash willingly cedes responsibilities to the browser.
Where things get interesting is on devices. Unlike on desktops, where older browsers still reign supreme and where browser innovation has faced slower adoption, device browsers are actually really good and really current. The fact that there are fewer browsers and better browsers, ones that support HTML5 innovation and standards and specifications, in many ways makes Flash far less critical for an optimum web browsing experience. That coupled with the fact that Flash is excluded from the browser on many devices means that web developers already need to code for a non-Flash experience, and that then makes Flash even less compelling for in-browser uses on devices.
Which is why we announced today that we will no longer continue to develop Flash Player in the browser on mobile devices. For in-browser experiences on devices, browsers can finally do what they really should do, and we have HTML5 to thank for that. So that’s where we are doubling down, and we’re hard at work on making HTML5 better (as we showed at MAX) as well as on tooling to support HTML5 development.
But just to be clear, this announcement pertains to the browser plug-in on mobile devices only.
The Flash browser plug-in on the desktop remains important and viable and even critical for many use cases, and we’ve publicly committed to adding value and features and functionality to better address just these use cases, primarily gaming and video. (And at the same time we’re aggressively driving in-browser HTML5 enhancements, including web motion and interaction design, another area where Flash used to be the only game in town).
Similarly, Flash based apps on mobile devices remain highly compelling, and AIR thus remains a great way to use Flash to build apps for Android, iOS, and RIM PlayBook. And with the recently released support for native extensions, the scope of what is possible in Flash based app has grown incredibly.
So, yes, in-browser Flash on mobile devices is reaching the end of the line. Flash on desktops continues to deliver in ways the browser can’t (yet). Flash is one way to build apps, and HTML5 (using PhoneGap) is another. You, as a developer, have options.
While the delivery mechanism changes as technology and platforms change, our commitment to providing the right tools and services does not. Our job has always been to empower developers and designers to create the most engaging and compelling experiences. That’s one thing that does not change at all.
Some Thoughts On Flash And Devices
50 responses to “Some Thoughts On Flash And Devices”
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The Adobe announcement was awful.
It should have been written as described at:
http://mattgemmell.com/2011/11/09/adobe-communication/ -
Ben, we were expecting having HTML 6 specs with the new version of Flash, not a fade away even for mobile browsers.
IMHO, this was a wrong decision and effected also all other Flash branded solutions in a negative way. The reputation of anything which has Flash on its name was not good for long time and this move finished whatever left over.
I do work for gov. now and we had just canceled using LiveCycle/Flex for 2 potential new projects. This is just one of the result at the end of decision makers. And I am not sure whether you saw the reports from Wired/ZdNet etc., the techies does not truest Adobe anymore on the future of the Flash and I only can blame Adobe on that.
As you mentioned Flash became popular because of completing lack of HTML features and this should have been like that for the future.
Sad. -
Thanks Ben. This was very helpful. Can you expand on the future role of Flex in the context of HTML5/PhoneGap? In addition to export as a swf, Flex/Air can now package IPA, without my learning Objective C. It can do the same with Android and Blackberry. Will this trend continue with the export of an HTML5 release build? Or will Flex and PhoneGap remain completely separate?
Don Kerr -
It dawned on me reading your post that Flash on the mobile is not going away, but Flash Player for mobile is. That nuance is being missed by everybody (including me). Instead of wasting resources to create runtime that cannot make use of native extensions and one that can, the decision was made to use the one that provided the most capability – AIR.
Adobe needs to hire a new PR person to make sure the correct message is being put out to the public and/or consult with Matt Gemmel (well written) to write your statement. -
This post was going wonderfully well right up to the point where you said mobile browsers are so good compared to desktop browsers that they don’t need Flash.
That’s when the willing suspension of disbelief ended, the eyebrows went up, and I have to call BS. I don’t see any reason to believe the mobile browsers are particularly better than desktop browsers.
I can’t even get the better desktop browsers like Chrome on iOS and Safari isn’t a leading edge browsing experience.
Adobe really screwed up with their handling of this announcement. They should’ve stuck to continue to add value to browsers everywhere. Instead they’ve done as much or more than Steve Jobs to undermine Flash’s credibility. -
Don, I doubt it. I’d rather see jQuery Mobile, for example, improve and include top notch data controls.
Steve, agreed. In fact, I made the same comment to some internal folks, even using the same term "nuance" as being missed. Which is why I wrote this post, and apparently it worked for you.
Bob, sorry, but I have to disagree. The web browser on most iOS and Android devices is orders of magnitude more current than most of the browsers on most desktops that we need to still contend with (um, IE6?). -
I bet Flex is done after the next minor release. If Flash is going to gaming and video, and HTML5 can do what Flex does, and is cross platform, why build on Flex. I would say most of the Flash Platform is done
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I don’t want to rain on the parade, but if I can make a solution work in a mobile browser without using Flash, then why would I want to use Flash on the desktop for similar projects? Although some desktop browsers will need Flash (such as IE 6) for some functions, I see these sorts of browsers falling out of favor as more users upgrade and/or transition to Mobile-based browsers and devices. Although I personally like working on the Flash/Flex platform, today’s announcement reads more to me as a depreciation of Flash by Adobe than an endorsement of the platform. Like other tech which had been depreciated by time, I suspect that Flash will continue to be used by enthusiasts, but will be less used by the general public just like Cold Fusion and Java are today.
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I’m starting to agree with you Ed. Especially when I hear comments from Ben that the preferred future is investment in JQueryMobile. Which I have no problem agreeing with. So, I’m now asking "What is my incentive to stay with Flex/Air, if I can target the same platforms as Air and ALL browsers with HTML5?
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Reading this is depressing. After investing so much into Flex/Flash, it looks like we’re all have to learn to develop native Android/iOS and HTML5/js.
Not sure I understand Adobe’s strategy. -
Ben,
I can’t send my comments because it is flagged as a spam.
Would you please to use another technique than the one you use to distinguish between spam and real message. -
Ben,
What is scaring me is that on your post and Adobe’s official post, games and video are mentioned prominently but nothing about enterprise or business applications which is a HUGE market for Flex and in my opinion where Flex and AIR really shine. Is this a purposeful omission? Adding to those worries are the layoffs in the Enterprise departments.
I have huge projects on the horizon that I was going to develop in Flex and this news is definitely causing some doubts. I would love to go the jQuery route but as everyone knows, the tools and language simply isn’t there for rapid development on complex projects. Am I going to screw over my clients by setting them up in a legacy environment if Flex goes out the window in 2-3 years?
The whole community has a lot of questions, yet Adobe is doing absolutely nothing to relegate our fears. I know a lot developers that are about to jump ship unless Adobe starts talking to us and giving us some reassurance. -
Adobe should be more forthcoming. They have bifurcated the development space. There will be Flash within AIR packages only and HTML5 for web delivery. Notice Plug-ins will be banned on IE, so there will be no universal delivery channel for ActionScript content on the desktop in the future.
There are two cohesive options:
The first is to Open-Source Flash Player so it may live on in WebKit etc. This maintains the status quo, but removes the burden of Flash maintenance from Adobe.
The second is to abandon ActionScript and reengineer around HTML5 by extending PhoneGap to support the desktop as well. The downsides to this are many, as PhoneGap+JQuery+JavaScript+HTML5 != ActionScript.
Adobe needs to articulate its vision of the Flash ecosystem going forward. Everyone seems to be looking at this from their own corner of the hypercube. “I use it for games†or “I use it for business apps†etc.etc.etc. That was the potential beauty of Flash and AIR… the write once, run anywhere do anything promise. If we don’t move fast this will be lost and we’ll be back to chrome.html5 + ie.html5 + firefox.html5 + PhoneGap + JQuery + JavaScript + AJAX + ………. -
How is it going to help a Corporation to make a favorable decision in integrating Flash in desktop browsers application that wouldn’t work at any extent in a mobile browser?
Does it make sense to still invest in Flash for desktops browser applications? -
I am getting just a little concerned about ColdFusion and the Enterprise products. Not all of
us worry so much about advertising and monetizing digital content. -
Hey Ben? Circa year 2000 Flash performance was so poor it was impossible to get more than 12 frames per second out of it. The average "fast" computer back then was single core 1 ghz. Part of Flash’s better performance on a PC today is not exclusively due to optimizing the player, but much has to do with faster computers.
Now imagine if back then Macromedia just killed off Flash because the performance was shite? Where would you and Adobe be today?
They are releasing new smartphones *now* that have quadcores! If Adobe would just be a little more patient (a couple years) Moore’s Law would catch up and provide more juice for a Flash Player to be viable. -
I have to agree with many of the comments, that Adobe was unwise to discontinue the flash plug in on mobile browsers. I’ve user Air before, it’s nice, but I doubt it will ever replace programming in a native language for iPhone/android. The performance just isn’t there, nor will you be able to have ready access to all the native widgets or hardware acceleration. The bread and butter for flash was the 99% penetration rate of the plug in for all browsers. By pulling out of the tablet market, flash is shooting itself in the foot. Html5 + javascript is nowhere near the performance of flash, plus there are better tools than dreamweaver for doing that sort of work.
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Ben,
I think all would agree mobile devices are the future, or a massive part of it, right?
And Flash isn’t supporting mobile devices anymore..
How can this equal any future for Flash in any form while owned by Adobe.
What the headline should have read was "Flash player to replace Flash Mobile player"… "As mobile devices become as powerful as desktops only 5 years ago, there is now no need to differentiate the player, and so our full focus will be on the Flash Player version 12, which will run on any PC, Mac, Unix, Android, IOS system, Sybiam, Palm and xyz."
What a shame! -
Ben,
My company has been a partner of Allaire, Macromedia and Adobe. I have led usergroups for all of the above. We have sold our customers on using Adobe languages over the years.
I’ve spent all day fending off questions concerning what we have done to our customers now that Flash Player has basically been killed off by Adobe. Yes, I know that only the mobile player is being cut at this time but you might as well kill it off everywhere else because if I’m any indicator, you won’t have any decision makers left willing to choose your technologies. They were hard enough to push before this lovely move.
I hope Adobe realizes that they have burned down bridges today that cannot be rebuilt. Today’s action makes HP’s strategy of the last 12 months look unbelievably good.
I find it ironic that Adobe is starting to push cloud technologies. The largest hurdle to selling the cloud is trust. Trust that the service will be there tomorrow. -
This is sad news indeed as I was very impressed with the new Flash player for mobile and I was looking forward to developing some mobile specific sites in Flash. The idea of making use of the stage3D apis and touch inputs to create a new in browser experience felt truly compelling and I still think Flash has a lot of potential when compared to HTML5 on mobile devices.
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Why oh why did you put "we will no longer continue to develop Flash Player in the browser" in blue and bold and leave "on mobile devices" without bold and blue?
People who don’t read the whole post will pick up that quote without "on mobile devices"… -
One aspect should be seen: jQuery and JS generally are awful languages, they wont live very long. Yes they get a hipe right now but do you know about in 5 years? maybe a big player like google or facebook introduce a much smoother language.
Another point to discuss is how important is it in the future to have a native app instead of a mobile app? I personally am a fan of native(/air)-apps, but how will the market deside?
@Ben: May you explain how does Adobe see the future of Flex? i personally am a Flex developer. For mobile projects i use FlexBuilder, but write most of the things in pure AS3 due to performance reasons. I personally do not see any advantage of Flex for large business applications – compared to a serverbased HTML5/CSS3/JS app. Why should i start nowadays a flex web app and not a HTML5-app? These smooth UI things are done with jQuery or something today.
Don’t understand me wrong, i love be Flash/Flex developer. i know as3+flex framework very well and i think it is one of the best envionments with flashbuilder, flash ide and so on. But i have to see the signs and i dont want to be late if i have to change my main programming language because flash is not needed any time on the market. -
Really really bad PR. and the timming is even worse !
why in the name of… Did Adobe release such a PR now? Couldn’t you wait until you have your next develop platform of your mix (Html5+ phoneGap + jQuery) including topnotch data connectivity?
Do you understand how we Flash developers (flex) feel?
Mobile platforms are what counts these days! When a company is stating on her technology that it is NO LONGER fit for mobile platform it is really stating that the related tech (flex/flash) is outdated and not relevant.
Does Adobe understand this !!! (sorry for the many !!! marks) 🙁 -
"I’d rather see jQuery Mobile, for example, improve and include top notch data controls."
And, while we wait, I’ll keep using Sencha Touch, which has had top notch controls from the beginning. JQueryUI and JQuery Mobile are nice, but both are far from full featured ‘application’ development frameworks. I know they’re working on key controls, but Sencha had them from ‘Go’, in both ExtJS and Sencha Touch.
I understand the love of Open Source, using and contributing to many projects, but there is value in using products that are mature, proven, documented, and well supported. I have to build applications every day, not pretty fluff, and JQUI/Mobile still don’t make the grade without a lot of outside assistance (unsupported plugins). -
And next ColdFusion will be the victim :-).
No one is real pushing this technology, no short comments on Max keynote. It will be a silent death after Version 10.
Adobe now loves digital publishing and cloud and not the small group of developers who using CF 🙂 -
If i was to make a web app then jQuery is the way to go. But if I am going to make a "native" app and target multiple devices then Flex and Flash is definitely a major consideration.
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Ben says:
"Don, I doubt it. I’d rather see jQuery Mobile, for example, improve and include top notch data controls."
Lee says:
"So maybe in the future we will be able to develop in Flash and export for HTML5, AIR, mobile native, etc."
http://www.leebrimelow.com/?p=3151#comment-769056
I love it when the Adobe employees (evangelists no less) are on the same page when it comes to the vision for the products they are evangelizing! -
Flash lost the marketing battle. Despite technical superiority, the public is of the opinion that Flash is finally failing. Everyone ? naysayers and Flash loyalists, think Flash is dead. If you have no one willing to build tech for it, it is as good as done. I hope Flash dies like, now. I dun want to endure another half decade of Flash as the undying.
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Hey there, just a PR detail… if you put something in bold in a text. Make sure it holds all the info. For a fast reader "we will no longer continue to develop Flash Player in the browser" is all you see and is kinda misleading no? What about adding the missing "on mobile devices" in bold too.
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Does it make sense to be an ActionScript developer anymore? Adobe used to enable me to write ActionScript for all major platforms and now they just removed a really big one (mobile browser) and didn’t replace it with anything. As an ActionScript developer, my target market just got a lot smaller. Do I wait for the next shoe to drop (Flash for desktop or AIR) or just go to HTML5 or native Android or iOS now? Adobe has obviously given up on ActionScript, I would be a fool not as well.
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If html5 is good enough for mobile then its definitely good enough for desktop. Where does that leave Flash? Nowhere. Adobe could have made the difference but they failed. Big time. Well done!
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I was excited to see away3d taking off on my phone. Very discouraging. I hope to see news about Coldfusion soon.
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Very annoyed. Feeling that ColdFusion is next.
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Ben, would you mind giving us details as to why you’d "rather see jQuery Mobile, for example, improve and include top notch data controls."
I’m open to learning. I just need to know the details as to why?
Education is the key to dealing with change. I admit, I know little about the benefits of HTML5/CSS3/JQuery/Javascript.
I’d like to see you/Adobe provide a line-by-line feature comparison to educate us as to why you and Deepa believe HTML5/JQuery is the future of enterprise application development.
I need specific ammo to explain to my clients why Flex/AS3 is no longer the recommended direction for enterprise apps, which currently included web, desktop and mobile.
Thanks!
Don Kerr -
Don,
My comment about jQuery Mobile was purely in response to you asking about Flex being used in HTML5 apps. We’ve looked at what it would take to have Flex generate HTML, and the last I heard the consensus was that that was not an idea we’d pursue. As such, if you want to go the HTML5 route then I’d rather you look at HTML libraries and frameworks, like jQuery Mobile. However, I’ll be the first to admit that (to my knowledge) there are not yet any HTML options that have the breadth and capabilities of Flex, and so Flex remains a viable and important option for many uses cases, and as Deepa and Andrew noted we are still committed to Flex.
— Ben -
What about livecycle, blazeds and flash catalyst
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I feel that Flash and HTML5 can co-exist as long as Adobe will invest in continuing the innovation with Flash Player for desktops and AIR. It would really be a pitty to have Flash Player turned into the world’s best Video player.
I’m optimistic. Flash is dead. Long live Flash http://www.allaboutflash.com/flash-is-dead-long-live-flash/ -
Thanks Ben. I guess your comments coupled with Deepa’s comment that HTML5 is the future of enterprise apps … is really what we are taking issue with. Which is why people are asking about the future of AS3. Yes, absolutely, in the near future, HTML5 can’t even come remotely close to Flex. But, the problem is selling Flex/AS3 to our enterprise clients in the long term … knowing Adobe is transitioning its focus away from it.
So, we need ammo to sell Flex now and a transition plan to HTML5. -
Is Adobe still committed to ColdFusion?
What is next? -
Synaptek, complete and utter agreement on the need to be more forthcoming. I’ll be the first to admit that we did a lousy job with the announcements and messaging. Without justification the mistakes in any way, I will just say that the teams are hard at work on writing up clear and unambiguous messaging, so stay tuned.
Don, stay tuned for greater (and frankly long overdue) clarity around Flex and HTML5 for business and enterprise apps.
Ahsan, the ColdFusion team is hard at work on the next major version of ColdFusion and a ColdFusion Builder update, too.
— Ben -
TechStreet! 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf2HD-ldD8M
Ben Forta says HTML5 and Flash can coexists. Good old days. -
Ben,
Deepa wrote "In the long-term, we believe HTML5 will be the best technology for enterprise application development".
You wrote "Flash is one way to build apps, and HTML5 is another".
Please comment this quite deep gap between you.
Thanks. -
To Tan, I don’t see a conflict. Deepa explicitly said that she is talking long term. I’ll be the first to admit that (to my knowledge) there are no HTML libraries and frameworks as rich and complete as Flex, but that is going to change. Which means for now we need both Flash/Flex and HTML5 for building apps.
Also, to all who commented, I share your dismay at how these announcements were made, and how incomplete they were. This is as frustrating for us as it is you, really. If there is any good news here, I think the message has been heard loud and clear, and we’re frantically working on cleaning a lot of this mess up, especially the completely unnecessary mess. Stay tuned!
— Ben -
To the commenter towards the top who said "and HTML5 can do what Flex does, and is cross platform, why build on Flex." Well, I’ve developed web/ajax enterprise apps for longer than "ajax" was even coined. I only recently started messing around with Flex and I can tell you that it completely blows away what you can do in HTML5/JS and it is SO much easier too. It’s not even close and it won’t be for a LONG time. JS is just a big bag of hurt.
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GWT here I come. So long Adobe. 🙂
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Lot’s of anguish in this thread and I think many fears are overblown here. Firstly, for serious clients to consider moving away from LiveCycle because Flash will no longer be actively developed for mobile devices, as a browser plug-in, makes no sense to me, in fact were they to be an employee of mine, they might not be for very long. Also, how many times do we, the CF community nave to drag up the death of CF, we the community, we make Mark Twain look like Dorian Gray. Now I will also say this, for the good of all those who have committed their career and purchasing decisions to Adobe products. Someone bears the responsibility for this PR debacle and whomever that is should lose their job, right now, no matter at what level they reside.
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well, we should beleive with this as he is promising they will continue with AIR for devices.
So can we expect AIR for Windows mobile in coming few months?If that is not happening, then its a clear indication about Flash on bed…
Adobe highlighed Flash/AIR for TV but now even droping Flash Player for TV’s. As I know, more than 60% of the Flash TV apps are browser based, even though they support AIR. Can we expect new TV SDK’s(For Samsung, LG) which will support AIR 3 in coming months and also update with the upadting AIR versions (if at all AIR is updated by Adobe)?If adobe is not interested in Flash plugin, how do they expect the TV manufactures to invest in AIR, which is again a superset of Flash Player. It is very difficult to understand how AIR runtime can be written/updated efficiently and not the Flash plugin, when AIR simply contains some additional API’s to that in Flash Player.
Also with the addition of Native extensions, Adobe might be freeing itself from supporting any other common features for mobile applications. With Native extensions, Adobe would expect developers to deal with any further platform specific requirement, rather than they creating the common API’s in AS3.0.
Adobe initiated Openscreen project with the intent of making Flash, the defacto standard for all screen app development and eventually ended up with preparing the Final Rights of Flash, their own creation. -
well, we should beleive with this as he is promising they will continue with AIR for devices.
So can we expect AIR for Windows mobile in coming few months?If that is not happening, then its a clear indication about Flash on bed…
Adobe highlighed Flash/AIR for TV but now even droping Flash Player for TV’s. As I know, more than 60% of the Flash TV apps are browser based, even though they support AIR. Can we expect new TV SDK’s(For Samsung, LG) which will support AIR 3 in coming months and also update with the upadting AIR versions (if at all AIR is updated by Adobe)?If adobe is not interested in Flash plugin, how do they expect the TV manufactures to invest in AIR, which is again a superset of Flash Player. It is very difficult to understand how AIR runtime can be written/updated efficiently and not the Flash plugin, when AIR simply contains some additional API’s to that in Flash Player.
Also with the addition of Native extensions, Adobe might be freeing itself from supporting any other common features for mobile applications. With Native extensions, Adobe would expect developers to deal with any further platform specific requirement, rather than they creating the common API’s in AS3.0.
Adobe initiated Openscreen project with the intent of making Flash, the defacto standard for all screen app development and eventually ended up with preparing the Final Rights of Flash, their own creation. -
I’ve posted this elsewhere – I really would like to see a reply or comment from somebody in Adobe who’s familiar with the Adobe Flash to HTML5 transition roadmap.
Are their concrete solutions or even plans to provide answers to the audio and video codec/format minefield that currently exists in the HTML5 spec?
HTML5 currently has no internal mechanism for securing premium audio video content. What solution is envisaged for delivering and securing premium content in HTML5 web and mobile apps?
Stephen Bennett
CTO
Web Audio Visual Engineering -
As a flash developer I actually agree with the decision to not have flash on mobiles. Personally I feel flash is best used for rich presentation on desktop, and best to gracefully degrade for mobile.
However, I disagree that that means flash’s usefulness in browser should be at an end. As you said, flash was meant to extend the browser’s abilities and pick up where they leave off. Saying that that is at an end reminds of of the educated from the late 1700’s saying that they believed everything that could be invented already was.
There’s always room for browsers to be better and do more, and that should be where flash continues to push forward and lay the road for those browsers to continue advancing. Right now it’s in the areas of 3D. One day it will be in the ever evolving methods of transferring data from computer to the human mind…today it’s a screen and speakers, but crazy advancements such as a content delivered through a contact lens, etc are always in inventors’ minds. Nothing will ever become a "standard" before someone else builds it outside of the standard. And that’s the realm of plug-ins like flash and others. Leaving those advancements totally to a couple browser makers and the w3c instead of to 7 billion inventive people that can make and utilize plug-ins is the best way to make sure the internet stagnates that I’ve ever heard of 🙂
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