At Adobe, we believe that the open flow of creativity, ideas, and information should be limited only by the imagination. Innovation thrives when people are free to choose the technologies that enable them to openly express themselves and access information where and when they want. Everyone loses when technological barriers impede the exchange of ideas.
Visit the Freedom of Choice page to learn more, and to read The Truth About Flash, and well as Our thoughts on open markets by Adobe's founders, Chuck Geschke and John Warnock.
When somebody start to talk about "freedom", "choices" and "love", you would expect it to be done on a 360 degree reflection, even if limited to a certain domain, like software and technology in this case.
Let's talk about choices: I've been for years a customer of both Macromedia with FreedHand and Adobe with GoLive (among many other packages from both). When MM has been purchased by Adobe, both of my "choices" have vanished, all my investment in learning and growing using these two products have been flushed away with little respect. Does Adobe cared about more "choices" at that time? Clearly not.
Apple didn't include Flash in their iStuff; it has been a "choice" of theirs. They have not been using Flash on their web sites for years. Still, millions of people stop by and buy their devices. In any shop I have been to purchase my hardware, nobody has ever forced me to buy a device from Apple, my "choice" was buy that device from Apple among all the other. It is my "choice" and I "love" it.
Adobe seems to imply that the world has been limited by Apple in any significant way, but I fail to see how.
If really the rest of the world has decided to embrace Flash with the exception of Apple, why Adobe is so worried about Apple choices and the choices of Apple customers?
Apple has limited innovation and by consequence, consumer choice, by requiring developers to build their apps using their own preferred methods. At the end of the day, they're hurting their own customers.
For developers that want to provide solutions to Apple's own customers, Apple has demanded that solutions can only be built in a particular way. It's like telling a carpenter you can only use this type of saw and that kind of hammer to build a cabinet. But if I have a different way to build that cabinet, I am out of luck. At the end of the day, customers want apps. I don't think any customer has said "Gee, this app would be better if it was written in Delphi"
What might irk me even more is the implication that some developer tools are better than others, and the developer himself is not a factor in the quality of the final product.
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/05/absolute_powe...
--- Ben
I'll help you out, chief: Apple doesn't include the Flash player on their devices. Because of the large number of web sites which use Flash, a web browsing device that doesn't have the Flash player is an inherently crippled piece of hardware.
And that's the problem. Apple doesn't give their customers the -- here it comes, get ready -- the *choice* to install the Flash player. You don't like Flash? Then don't install it. Done.
I've had plenty of gripes with Macromedia and Adobe, too, but Jobs' attack was outrageously dishonest. So Adobe is responding to that attack...with facts, all of which you seem to have ignored. Do you really not see that?
Unfortunately you seem to miss the point: nobody forces you or anybody else to buy an iPhone.
If Steve Jobs thinks Flash is not necessary on their devices so be it, people may buy other terminals that actually support Flash (when it will be available of course...). For years I bought mobile terminals that didn't have any form of Flash, lite or not, even when Flash was already at the peak on desktop, and you know what, nobody cared. Why now?
Why Flashers seems to to be blind to the fact that iPhone is only ONE of the many choices available?
Flash has seemingly run successfully on an Android phone; just not in public. The public demo failed. Flash developers interested in Android may have to wait a bit longer to make their fortunes. Me, I prefer the choice not to have to pay a lot of money to start developing; and FlashBlock is the first add-on that goes with FireFox for most everyone I know.
We were going to do so based on requests from our users, and we were going to use phonegap because we could leverage existing skills within our organization.
Now, if we are to pursue an iPhone mobile strategy, we'll need to pay for, learn and use Apples tools. This will increase our costs, at a time when we really can't be increasing our costs.
Now, you can say that developing iPhone apps is a "choice". Well, it's not - it's an expectation from our users, and opens us up to competitive disadvantages. Apple is *forcing* us into an "our way or the highway" situation - use our products, or else!
In that regard, while Jobs *may* be right, you may not "need" flash any more, which tools we use to develop applications should be OUR choice, not Steve Jobs! I am an Apple customer - my company purchased, in good faith, iPhones, in order to pursue an iPhone/mobile strategy, and as a customer, we have been screwed.
There is no good reason as to why, either. Apps created in phonegap and Flash *work*. But then again, that seems to be the problem here.
Adobe has no one to blame but themselves. They have pissed on Apple for the last decade. Now that Apple has a dominant technology, Adobe is crying that Apple won't let them play.
I'm a Python developer, but I'm not crying over the fact that I can't write an iPhone app with Python. If I want to write a native iPhone app, I'll learn Obj-C and Cocoa. Why is that so hard to understand?
If mobile Flash is going to be so great, then prove it on Android. If it turns out to be great, let Apple worry.
"How this affects other tool-chains like Appcelerator, Flash CS5, Corona, MonoTouch, … I have absolutely no idea. All I can say is that PhoneGap is okay." - from the link you gave me.
There is *nothing* in the SDK agreement that automatically exempts PhoneGap from the "lockdown".
If Apple is making an exception, it is JUST that. But that's also a problem. When will Apple *stop* making that exception? When will it remove PhoneGap based apps because of something PhoneGap did?
"If I want to write a native iPhone app, I'll learn Obj-C and Cocoa. Why is that so hard to understand?"
I don't have a problem understanding you - from a business point of view, it makes no sense. This country (America) was founded on people doing things differently, more effectively, using innovation and imagination. That is NOT what Apple is doing here. Now, you can agree with that if you like, and that's your prerogative, but don't disguise it as "choice".
This from a company who continually boasts that 98% of all the "rich" media content on the web flows through a single proprietary player? That they control?
Sorry, not buying it.
Besides, what Flash? It's been three years since the introduction of the iPhone, and Adobe still doesn't have a full working version available on ANY phone.
Heck, Adobe can't even be bothered to fix bugs on their flagship products.
http://www.cfinternals.org/blog/2008/03/dreamweave...
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415302
Apple is better off without Adobe on their platform.
Now, Apple may be wrong in thinking that the iPhone can be the top selling smart phone without Flash. Or they may be right. I don't know the mobile market enough to predict that. But, of all the people that I know outside and who do not work for Adobe, not one has complained to me that the apps are not written in Flash. Only one is missing Flash on the iPhone at all (because one web site uses free Flash games ;-))
If the iPhone is so great that the majority of people can live without Flash on it, then the DEVELOPERS will have to adjust. People don't care what technology an app is built with, as long as it does what it is supposed to do.
"Now, if we are to pursue an iPhone mobile strategy, we'll need to pay for, learn and use Apples tools. This will increase our costs, at a time when we really can't be increasing our costs."
No offense intended, but, I fail to see where this is Apple's fault or even their problem. You can not seriously demand that another company adjusts their devices or their regulations to your business model or business situation.
"which tools we use to develop applications should be OUR choice, not Steve Jobs!"
So why do you accept that Adobe does the same thing? My platform of choice is Linux... and most Adobe tools do not run on that platform. You could say Adobe forces you to use Windows or Mac. And again, that comes down to a business decision. (A reasonable business decision to me, btw.) Their tools, their business, their choice. Not ours. It just happens that this business decision suits your situation, so you don't object.
Just imagine that Apple would demand that all iPhone apps were written in Flash or Flex and all other technologies were forbidden. Do you think that Adobe would be demanding Freedom of Choice in that situation? Would any Flash developer demand Freedom of Choice then? I don't think either one to be very likely.
Chris
This from a single company who boasts that 98% of all the rich media content on the web is handled by their proprietary player? That company?
Question for all: how long did it take you all to become 100% proficient in these? From what I understand, it takes an average of 3 years for a programmer to become fully competent in a programming language. Yes, you could get fully up to speed with 3 months of intense study, but how many people have that luxury of neglecting personal life and obligations, putting other business tasks on a lower priority while your time is taken up with this studying?
I think that is one of the issues behind this controversy.
Some of the points above are correct in saying that "choice" cuts both ways. However, suppose Mr. Jobs had decided to not allow Javascript on the iPhone, iPad, etc. That would be clearly silly and would disable a great many sites. But it would be somewhat justified, because Javascript has been much less portable among different browser versions than Flash has.
Of course Javascript is not a commercial product like Flash is. But Jobs' argument was not totally based on open source issues. He also chose to say how icky Flash was as a product in general. Well, especially in past years, I have found much more compatibility among Flash sites in all the browsers I use than among the Javascript pieces of various sites.
If Apple had decided to not use Flash without feeling the need to run down the product publicly, I wouldn't have bothered to join the discussion. Again -- speaking as a casual observer -- it seems like Apple made this a lot more pointed than necessary, which always makes me wonder if it was something more than a simple technology/market choice. Adobe is reacting strongly, but it strikes me as more of a response to an attack.
Just my 2 cents.
Not only is that no where NEAR the world of antitrust (you can't have a monopoly of your own product line), it is also disingenuous to point the finger at Apple and exclude other companies like Microsoft. People are claiming that Apple is forcing them to buy a Mac and use their software tools to develop Apps for their platforms. First of all, no one is forcing anyone to develop Apple apps at all. Second, please tell me how I can develop Microsoft .Net applications on my platform of choice, my Macintosh. Answer: I can't because MS "does not let me". But no one is screaming, "MS is making me buy a PC and their Dev tools to build their Apps." Why not?
And as someone above has already stated, the Apple SDK and tools are all FREE, and it is only $99 per YEAR to be part of their Developers network. Compare that to an MSDN license, which START at $1,500 per year.
Regards,
Troy
I submitted Zarqon to the AIR Marketplace, but since it competes with Adobe's Shibuya by giving developers the ability to license their apps and sell them anywhere, it sits there unapproved and Adobe refuses even to answer my emails on the subject. And I'm an Adobe Solution Partner! Shibuya didn't even exist when I started Zarqon, and I have a year's development in it. Not that AIR Marketplace is the only way to sell it, but it would be nice if I could put it there like the others in the community who love AIR. Its their store and they choose what to put on the shelves, true but its funny how much it reminds me of their argument that Apple should let Adobe play in their walled garden...
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;-)
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